Thursday, May 26, 2011

How WBC Fails: God H8's 5/19

The Westboro Baptist Church (or WBC) is an Independent Baptist “church” known for its extreme stance against homosexuality, other religions, and anything else that tickles their fancy. They are also known for their greatly offensive protest activities against fallen service men/woman and high profile aka popular people. In this special section created for the WBC Cult Exposed we will explore their hateful and distorted “divine” teachings and expose them for what they truly are, a hate group who uses religion for personal power. 

Part: 5/19
Name: God gave man free will- Pt5 of WBC's GOD H8S vid -
Update: Videos have been removed. Blog now shows video of all of them combined.
Bible verses mentioned:
Deuteronomy 32:39See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Matthew 6:27: And which of you by taking thought is able to make himself a cubit taller?

Cogito ergo sum.

Have you seen these words before? Do you perhaps know of their meaning? Comprised some time ago, or at least in this fashion, I wonder if Rene knew at the time just how important (and controversial) such language would become. These few simple words, “I think, therefore I am” would soon form a short of backbone for all Western philosophy. Not only would it sparks decades of thought and debate, it would come to comprise of who and what we are, showing itself in nearly all forms of culture and acts of life. We would come to ask if this freedom of will was true to reality or merely a delusion from a pattern not yet seen or understood. We would ask if our existence is but a lie, or perhaps some twisted form of The Sims. Perhaps the muses and fates of ancient Greece were right, and our live were pre-arranged for us. Could we as mere humans take control and change the course of fate?

In today's video we will see what the bible has to say about such a question.

What he said: "Phony Christians, especially Baptists love to spout this lie. You can't fathom the idea that God has predetermined every outcome, per-destinated every occurrence, especially who's going to heaven and who's going to hell."

Aside from the morally and socially questionable leader Fred Phelps, to whom was already explored, I find Steve-o*1 to be the most infuriating and bigoted of the lot. The ease at which he casts out his own family, presents speeches of hate and condemnation, and how he uses such for his ego high, it's bloody scary dood! During this video we see how he casually labels not only people he has never met, but also labels faiths as false because they are different from his. Who is he to state who is phony and who is not? Who is he to tell us that free will is something that is not only foolish to think, but also damning as well? He still has not presented biblical credits for being the voice of the Divine, so where does this all come from? Is there any proof to this? What does the bible speak of these matters?

The following are some verses that could be interpreted as humans not having free will, that some sky jackass determines who is going to heaven, which is going to hell, and there is jack we can do about it.

  • "And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48 
  • "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." -- Ephesians 1:4-5
  • "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13
  • "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
  • "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." -- Romans 9:11-22

Before reviewing these various verses, lets consider one thing here. If we take a moment to think about this, one could come to the conclusion this bi-polar god is the supreme form of EVIL in the universe. How and why? Not only did this god create sin, but he also created man for the sole purpose of sinning and committing evil acts. Wtf mate! This all powerful all "loving" bi-polar god laid out humanities lives before us, so to be the most offensive as possible, and then punishes said people for following his plan. Is your mind blown yet?

So what do we make of the verses above? Are we to believe these are some long passed over verses of the bible that speak of the true evils of the Jewish/Christian faith? I would assume that even with humanities utter incompetence breading through the centuries not even theses lines could have been missed. We already know this Bible was written over two thousand years ago as not only as a collection of stories with moral undertones, it was also written to glorify  their respective faiths. Even with today's books and movies, when shock value is demanded of a scene a simple "Joe did bad so he's going to hell" would not do. When you want a captive audience, you turn it into "And the heaven roared at Joe, for his grievous and many sins against the almighty displeased and angered Him! I, the prophet whatever, knew from the beginning the would happen! Now come children of Adam and Eve, do not follow in such a path, turn away from sin!" See? This of course is just my opinion since no one alive today can speak with the writers of the bible...

If by chance you are one of the people who would skim the bible, you may have take note of various usages of the word destiny as well. I know your probably thinking, how can destiny and free will go hand and hand? This would fall under the "it's not what you say, it's how you say it line." In Philippians 3:18-19, we see “Many lives as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction.”  By this time, the enemies of Christ have pissed off Christ's followers enough to either raise a huge army, or incur God's wrath in some way. 99% of the time, it was by a huge army... To put it in similar terms it's like saying "it was your destiny to burn in that fire" AFTER the idiot already jumped in. You made your bed now lay in it works too. Other verse examples of this are Psalm 49:13, Proverbs 6:32 and the ever fun Revelation 20:13.

As we continue our journey into the biblical quest of free will justification, we find some interesting revelations. Not only does the bible supposedly speak about humans being nothing more than punching bag robots, but now we see humans have free will! Huzzah! To live, think, act and chose on our own. Also with less fluff text and more to the point...

 The following are some verses supporting this;
  • Deuteronomy 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.”
  • Joshua 24:15 “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
  •  Proverbs 3:31 “Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.”
  • James 4:17“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
  • Deuteronomy 30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off. 12 "It [is] not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' 13 "Nor [is] it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' 14 "But the word [is] very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.
  • Deuteronomy 30:15 "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 "in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 "But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 "I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong [your] days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live.
  •  John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
  •  John 15:7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
  • Romans 2:10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
  • 1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain [it]. 25 And everyone who competes [for] [the] [prize] is temperate in all things. Now they [do] [it] to obtain a perishable crown, but we [for] an imperishable [crown].
  •  1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and [before] Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep [this] commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing.
  • 2 Timothy 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
  • 1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

Yea I know the feeling.
The bible is a book with many pages, with many messages, with many different authors and regrettably many translators. As time passes and new cultural events change our way of thinking, certain parts of the bible may make less sense, seem silly or turn out to be just offensive and wrong. Who here honestly thinks it's a sin to eat seafood? Or to cut your hair, or it's OK to own a slave... While many of these issues can be excused or simply laughed at, considering the book was written two thousand years ago, when presented with two such fundamentally different views points, one solid answer must be found. Regrettably, the only source we have for any clarification either way is the bible... so here we go >_>

With an issue that has been around longer than even Christianity, it is not only surprising there is confusion. What I found, at least according to the bible workings, is that the bible of the Christians teaches humanity was created with the ability and will to make choices, and as such much take responsibility for them. While the devil may tempt, we humans are responsible for our own actions. If we return to the bible we can see it's pages littered with stories supporting this argument.One of which I would like to quickly share. The story of Adam and Eve is the story where two lovers (and well first people on earth) walk the Garden of Eden doing whatever it was people did before TV and the internet. While chilling and having everything handed to them, Eve was tempted with the fruit*2 of knowledge. This fruit was already forbidden by God, so he was kinda pissed when they partook in it. If such an event had been pre-arranged, his anger would have been misplaced, and even in violation of God’s own laws. We see here that both man and woman are not some robots enslaved to a douche bag god. They knew what was going to happen, and they were held accountable. If we continue on with later passages, we see this accountability further emphasized. Such verses include Proverbs 22:8a, Proverbs 14:23 and Romans 13:3.

What he said: "In a moral universe there can be only one will, that of God"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What he said: "Christ put the matter this way, he asked Which of you taking free thought can add a metric to your stature. He was saying in effect, You have free will huh? Then grow a foot an a half" 

If free will is a lie, then how can I add a metric (and more) to my stature by simply standing on a chair then?How can a person get various operations (and a significantly smaller bank account) to have a perma-increase to their height?

Oh snap....

Before we part for today, I wanted to address a issue that really irks me when it comes to the WBC. In this, and many other videos by the producer, Steve tells us how arrogant it is not to accept this fact of predestination, that the elect are going to heaven (the current elect being only that of the WBC), and how we should rejoice in all actions of God.*3

Yea, how about no…

If this “only elect go to heaven” idea is to be believed, then why was Jesus sent to begin with? What purpose would he have being sent by a LOVING God? Christ’s ultimate mission of dieing for our sins would have been a failure since only the WBC would be saved. If we once again return to the bible, we see the Jesus came to this earth to save ALL people, not just that of a selective hearing cult;

·         John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
·         Isaiah 42:1-4 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One [in] [whom] My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.  He will not cry out, nor raise [His] [voice], Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law."
·         1 Peter 2:4-8 Coming to Him [as] [to] a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God [and] precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame." Therefore, to you who believe, [He] [is] precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone," and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

If we continue on doesn’t the bible also teaches Jesus is the Savior of all men and is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world? Did he not come to completely take away or expiate? This means that all the sins of all people where paid for by the death of Jesus, not just of the elect.

·         1 Timothy 4:10 For to this [end] we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is [the] Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
·         1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
·         Romans 5:8-9 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Another interesting point about being elect is, well it really does mean jack crap. For biblical proof of this statement, we need only look at the past stories of Israel. As we read many time in the Torah, or Old Testament, we see that the people of ancient Israel where God’s chosen people, his elect. However this was not universally gifted to all people, because not everyone took the word as law, and basically rejected the good. This of course got them into the burning land down under.  In the following verses we see further proof that election means nothing, and personal faith is needed to be saved.

·         Numbers 14:11 Then the Lord said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?"
·         Numbers 16:30 "But if the Lord creates a new thing, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the pit, then you will understand that these men have rejected the Lord."
·         1 Samuel 8:7 And the Lord said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them."
·         1 Samuel 10:19 "But you have today rejected your God, who Himself saved you from all your adversities and your tribulations; and you have said to Him, `No, set a king over us!' "

And because rubbing some salt in preverbal wound is always fun;

·         Let’s assume for a moment that free will had no biblical, scientific or logical backing for it. If we assume this, then why would the WBC even bother preaching? People who are elect are elect and already saved. People who are going to hell are already doing so. NOTHING anyone can do will change this.
·         If the word of God to his elect (in this case the WBC) was to protest funerals, why was this not included in the bible? Also why only high profile funerals? I don't recall seeing the hash tag "media whore" being included as acceptable in the bible.
·         If we are to rejoice in all of God’s actions, and since everything that happens is God’s actions, why did the WBC not rejoice in the following;
·         When the courts ruled “The WBC solution” (forcing the WBC to be 500 to 1000 feet) was legal and not “far over reaching”?
·         When someone “bombed” their church?
·         When they where bared from the UK?
·         When Fred Phelps was disbarred for his unlawful and unethical actions as lawyer?
·         The numerous cases they actually lost in court?
·         When people bring up Shirley Phelps bastard child? Should not the WBC rejoice in being held to the same standards they call upon others?

Another blog researched and written, another WBC video shot down for what it really is. If anything this video has shown just how real free will is. We have people on one side saying a hate filled spiteful God created us just to screw us over, on the other people saying we are responsible and cause of our own actions.  We have people who damn homosexuals, others who accept them. Be it granted from a divine will or even part of the divine plan, we are in charge of our lives, and it is up to us how we live it. 

Now I need Snapple…

1: I will officially go on the record here and state that, out of all the members of the WBC, he is the one that gets on my nerves. This person is so full of himself that he makes my customers look like nothing. His ever cocky, unfounded superiority complex added with his smug “I’m never wrong” is just… ugh!


3: Update 9/2/11: to date they have never answered why they never rejoiced in the fact someone bombed their complex or the various court cases they lost. After all, the WBC states many times ALL actions are approved by God first.  

1 comment:

  1. As of 10/10, this posting has been returned too for the purposes of editing, updating and reformatting to current adopted format.